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 Post subject: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Does these results look ok? thanks in advance.

I am trying to degree a small voodoo hydraulic roller cam (60110) for my truck and the cam card specs are intake opens -0.5* BTDC @0.50 (so in effect it actually hapens after TDC correct?)

and intake closes 31.5* ATDC@ 0.50

I have double checked my actual TDC and when i check cam with degree wheel and dial indicator I was getting intake open@ -5* ATDC and close@ 36*BTDC

Using the Cloyes hex-adjust the only option is either 6* advance or 4* advance so I went 4* advance and now have intake opening @1* btdc.
Would 6* be better?

Can anyone tell me if this sounds right the -.5 is a strange figure to begin with. Thanks in advance. (no pun intended)
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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Your present setting, 1° BTDC, is fine.

An old school trick is to place the camshaft at different degrees and crank the engine over and measure compression. The setting with the highest compression reading was optimum.

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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:25 pm 
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Everett#2390 wrote:
Your present setting, 1° BTDC, is fine.

An old school trick is to place the camshaft at different degrees and crank the engine over and measure compression. The setting with the highest compression reading was optimum.


Thanks Everett for replying much appreciated.

I have posted this same question on many boards but get few reply's.
Its like some more knowledgeable folks don't always freely offer advice it seems.

I have put many cams in before w/o degreeing but just wanted to try and do it right for once and check everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Quote:
Its like some more knowledgeable folks don't always freely offer advice it seems

I beg to differ, after being around for well over 50yrs, what I have found is the guy who do know what they are talking about, are quite free with info
BUT never tell them how to suck eggs, the shut up staight way... they dont suffer fools at all

On the other hand those who think they know...told by their girl freinds mothers cousins, little brother, are full of 'ideas' but never been there done that, and have no idea why a open ended spanner has an off set.......are full of it.
A couple simple questions soon sorts out who is who.

The guys here have been there done that, screwed up learnt by mistakes decades ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:59 pm 
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Everett#2390 wrote:
Your present setting, 1° BTDC, is fine.

An old school trick is to place the camshaft at different degrees and crank the engine over and measure compression. The setting with the highest compression reading was optimum.


This is an old wives tale & absolutely does not work
Stop & think about it for a minute & you will understand why

Mike
Install the cam with the intake center at 106 & call it good

To do this find max intake lobe lift & zero your dial indicator
Recheck a couple of times to be sure you have a good number
Back up about 60 thou
Bring the indicator to 50 thou in the correct direction of rotation
Write the number down
Got past max lift again to 50 thou on the other side of the lobe
Write the number down & divide by 2
This is the ICL
Move as necessary to put it where you wish

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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:40 am 
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Wolfplace wrote:
Everett#2390 wrote:
Your present setting, 1° BTDC, is fine.

An old school trick is to place the camshaft at different degrees and crank the engine over and measure compression. The setting with the highest compression reading was optimum.


This is an old wives tale & absolutely does not work
Stop & think about it for a minute & you will understand why

Mike
Install the cam with the intake center at 106 & call it good

To do this find max intake lobe lift & zero your dial indicator
Recheck a couple of times to be sure you have a good number
Back up about 60 thou
Bring the indicator to 50 thou in the correct direction of rotation
Write the number down
Got past max lift again to 50 thou on the other side of the lobe
Write the number down & divide by 2
This is the ICL
Move as necessary to put it where you wish

Thanks Mike.

I came up with 211/2 = 105.5 ICL using that method with advancing cam 6* with Cloyes cam gear.
I hope this is ok?.


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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:40 am 
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hogdaddy wrote:
Wolfplace wrote:
Everett#2390 wrote:
Your present setting, 1° BTDC, is fine.

An old school trick is to place the camshaft at different degrees and crank the engine over and measure compression. The setting with the highest compression reading was optimum.


This is an old wives tale & absolutely does not work
Stop & think about it for a minute & you will understand why

Mike
Install the cam with the intake center at 106 & call it good

To do this find max intake lobe lift & zero your dial indicator
Recheck a couple of times to be sure you have a good number
Back up about 60 thou
Bring the indicator to 50 thou in the correct direction of rotation
Write the number down
Got past max lift again to 50 thou on the other side of the lobe
Write the number down & divide by 2
This is the ICL
Move as necessary to put it where you wish

Thanks Mike.

I came up with 211/2 = 105.5 ICL using that method with advancing cam 6* with Cloyes cam gear.
I hope this is ok?.


Excellent :beers:

I saw your post on TC, just a note
This is why we degree every cam we install
The error can be in the cam, the crank, the timing set,,,,
any combination of the above,, :woot:
I sent back 6 timing sets that were off a half tooth or about 8°
These were not cheap sets :mad:

I have another brand I use with the 9 position crank gear that when done say the cam is 2° retarded to get to 4 advanced??

Go figure :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Yrs ago a m8 and I where going to a replace a cam in my camaro with one that I had custom ground,
We didnt know what was in the engine at the time, so using dials and such thought we would try and figure it out...which we did.
Being in a mess around mood, we also checked out the custom cam with degree wheel...it was damn near spot on, and we also used the old school as Everett mentioned, suprise suprise that turned out damn near spot on.

Since then have changed cams several times....with both off the shelf and a custom (which use now)..every one of the off shelf cams had to be degreed in to get right.

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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Quote:
===========
we also used the old school as Everett mentioned, suprise suprise that turned out damn near spot on.


You are going to have to explain what you mean by this sentence
If you are saying the best cranking compression was with the cam installed at say 106 ICL that was called for you need to go back & do it again because this is incorrect

If you give some thought about what moving the intake lobe does as I suggested above,,
You should see that if you keep advancing the thing until you hit the piston & bend the valve the cranking compresion will keep going up so I would highly suggest you not use cranking compression to decide where to install a cam

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 Post subject: Re: Any cam guru's or engine builders
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:22 pm 
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Wolfplace wrote:
Quote:
===========
we also used the old school as Everett mentioned, suprise suprise that turned out damn near spot on.

You should see that if you keep advancing the thing until you hit the piston & bend the valve the cranking compresion will keep going up so I would highly suggest you not use cranking compression to decide where to install a cam


If you think back a few years to all those thread on dynamic compression...

Measuring cranking pressure with a guage is one way to read dynamic compression.

Dynamic compression is defined as the area between intake closing and TDC.

The earlier the intake closes, the more dynamic compression you will have.

Right up to the point where the valves contact the pistions and you can't advance the cam any further...
Note this point will be WAY WAY off from anyplace the engine will run good.

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