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 Post subject: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:29 am 
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Per my post over at the Bar, I tore my engine down to swap the cam; but now thinking that I'll go ahead and do the heads.

Here's what I'm working with right now. I've read a few posts applauding Canfields, but all I've found so far are the 200cc intake runners, which is way too much me thinks. Would like to avoid paying $1500+ for AFRs, if I can help it. Read a few surprisingly positive reviews on Summits line of heads. I'm starting from a base knowledge of zero, so I only know what I've read/will read, so all input is appreciated!

Engine: Goodwrench crate 350. From what I've found online, out of the box it's 249HP @ 5000rpm, 304lbs @ 3500.
Cam: I got a Federal Mogul Sealed Power CS1168R from a friend: Hydraulic, 2500-6000 RPM Range, 300 intake/308 exhaust Adv Dur, Duration @.050 232 intake/234 exhaust, Valve Lift .488 intake/.488 exhaust, Lobe C/L 108. That said, when I bought the cam ($25!), I wasn't planning on doing heads too, so I guess I could consider re-evaluating my cam selection.
Intake: Edelbrock Performer. Pretty sure it's the 2101.
Carb: I have an Edelbrock 600 on there right now, but going to rebuild a Holley 4777 (650) DP and use it.
Trans: 700r4, with a 2500 stall converter.
Rearend: 10.2 w/ 3.73 Eaton Posi.

Use: It's mostly a weekend driver, with a few trips in to the office every now and then. I've never been to the track, but would like to not look silly if I ever do make it. So, I don't really need a screamer, but I LOVE the choppy idle, and I'd like to get remotely close to hanging with the new SS's and GT's rolling off the production lines.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:58 pm 
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A 180cc intake would work pretty well, though you can't go wrong with the afr195's, there is a reason they cost 1500 clams.

Brodix makes a really good head, not quite as expensive as the afr's. If you wanna really keep the $$$ down, Dart iron eagles run well too.

One thing you need to look for is compression. Most likely you have full dish psitons and an 8.5:1 compression stock. With that cam, you will want 10.5, or even 11:1 (assuming you are building a premium gas motor) You'll need to do some math, but may need chambers even smaller than 64cc's. When I got my AFR's, I had 20cc D dish pistons in the 383, it took a .040 cut off brand new heads to get my compression up to 11:1.

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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:32 pm 
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I'm reading up on all this, trying to learn, but you'll still have to talk to me like I'm a 5 year old (apologies in advance).

I read that it's better to have intake runners that are slightly undersized than oversized... I forget what the logic in that was, but I do remember it saying that larger intake runners worked better on larger CI engines, like 406s? Would 195s be okay on my 350?

As for the cam, I bought it because it was wicked cheap off a friend. Given what I'm going to use it for (above), would I be better off just buying a different cam? I keep seeing max lift on these heads I'm looking at, and it almost seems like a waste of heads to use .488" lift cam on something that can go as high as .580+.


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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:25 pm 
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Doing a little surfing and came up with these options, not vouching for any of the sellers for these heads, you will of course need ti do your own research before purchasing anything Zac. I just think these heads choices are a good sampling of what will work well on a 350. With your low compression pistons I would choose the 64cc chambers to bump the compression up into the 10's........use a compression calculator to get the exact ratio. You could also use the .015 rubber coated head gasket depending on how far in the hole the pistons are and what the final quench works out to bump the cpmpression a bit more.....ideal quench is about .040. AFR's the best, Brodix are real good and the Edlebrocks should decent and are certainly more affordable.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Edelbroc ... 5d30752522


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AFR-SBC- ... 4cf5bcbb14


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brodix-I ... 1c17cde79e

One you decide on heads and you know you compression you can make a better decision on the cam. You definitely need to be at 10 or 10.5:1 for that 232/234@050 cam, there are better choices out there today and I am not fond of used flat tappet cams because you just don't know by looking at the lobes whether they are good or not.. If you opt to stay lower on the compression, say 8.5-9:1 then the Crane 274HO6 or simlar would be a good choice. With either cam you could also go with 1.6 ratio rockers to grab a little more lift at the valve just watch the valve springs used .

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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:51 pm 
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a 350 with flat top pistons and standard gaskets will get 10.5:1 with 64cc heads. shim gaskets will bring it up a half a point, to 11:1.
But you are not going to get that if you have full dish pistons.
You need to do the math. I wonder if I ever uploaded PatK's DCR calculator?

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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:30 pm 
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I found this online calculator: http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

But I don't know my numbers for some of what's requested, i.e., head gasket bore diameter, piston dome volume, and piston deck clearance. I found numbers for everything else, and left the fields I just mentioned with the values supplied by the calculator: came out to 15:1+. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that ain't right.

Something I should have mentioned, I'd like to keep this thing running on pump gas. So I don't want CR too high, right??


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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:33 am 
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head gasket bore, 4.1 is a good number to use, not a huge deal.

Piston dome / dish, you need to get your heads off and see what they are, then look them up, or someone will know from seeing them.

One thing, be sure to remove the plugs on the sides of the block, just above the pan rails, before rmeoving the heads. The block is still full of coolant until those plugs come out.

_________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'WOW What a Ride!'"

JimM's firstgens.com Camaro Board
Jim's NEW Blog!
http://www.Jimragtop.com
The JimCAM user team p/w camaro
Firstgens on FaceBook


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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:47 pm 
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I can back up what JimM was saying on the heads. I had both versions of the 195's, with the Eliminator being on top of the street version. I have had them on for 4 years now. All I can say is , they were worth the money. I used the 195 on a 355 then on a 383. Going to a larger cam (HR 282) told me I made the right choice. I use my car for touring. I am running 60 cc chambers with 10.3 comp.

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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:33 pm 
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Hey Zac for a low buck option take a look at AeroHead http://www.aeroheadracing.com/id7.html I got a set of the stock re-man. heads about 10yrs back and a great value $400 2.02"/1.6" valves screw in studs 65cc chambers. Now granted these are re-maned heads not new, but a very good low buck option. For new heads The Dart Iron Eagle 180cc's are a great cast iron head fro about $760-$850 set. The Summit heads are a very good choice as well. I've talked to a few guys at shows that have them and liked 'em. And the 62cc chambers would help your compression as well. Also take a good look at the Trick Flow heads as well. There about the same as Summits with the smaller Corvette style 56cc chamber heads or there larger 195cc heads with 65cc chambers. All in all though I would say the Edelbrock e-series heads at $900 are probably the best bang for the buck in this price category.


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 Post subject: Re: help choosing Heads
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:18 am 
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I did some Googling and found that these engines come with cast dish pistons, 4.00" bore, 3.47" stroke. Given the anemic performance of my engine, I believe the specs/parts are the same now As when it was assembled.

I only know what I read, but someone on an old hotrodders thread commented that the pistons are .045 above the deck at top deaf center... I have absolutely no idea what that means, but am going to do some more reading and try to figure it out.

I was leaning toward 64cc chambers to begin with, but Given the dished pistons, I don't think there's any question about it now.

I'm really struggling with how much $ I want to sink into new heads... Decisions, decisions. Thanks for the recs though. I'm going to read up on all of them tmrw.


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